Post by Avi on Jan 27, 2013 3:08:53 GMT -5
In response to Extre Credits episode about Narrative (aka that thing we're trying to work into Doom)
penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/how-to-start-your-game-narrative
vortexcortex / January 23
Well, if your story is like "Romeo and Juliet" and it can be retold in any setting even with different characters, then it's not really boxing yourself in much at all now is it? That story only requires loyalties and conflicting groups to be told. I'm not saying that's the best way to start out, but a good story can indeed be created first then applied in different settings and different game worlds with different mechanics -- The world and mechanics and narrative need not be so tightly coupled as for one to need to be "first". The world can indeed restrict what stories can be told. For instance, Romeo and Juliet doesn't really work well in a wold where main characters are an asexual race of sentient machines...
In my opinion, EC missed the mark a bit. They have an episode titled "How To Start Your Game Narrative" and about half of it isn't even about good narrative processes, ~50% of the episode is about NOT starting a narrative. Thus a more apt title should be "When To Start Your Game Narrative" -- Note that When and How are two VASTLY different things...
What I like to do to start my narrative is world crafting. I like to come up with worlds that maybe haven't been explored (deeply) yet, and flesh them out into a compelling place to tell a story. Once the art style and setting are taking root, I ask "what important kinds of stories does this world lend itself to telling?" I don't hesitate to sketch out some stories in the world and if they don't work as a main narrative, they can always become lore. In creating the Lore of the world I end up naturally coming up with all sorts of political intrigue and possible story elements that can tie into a bigger more overarching story with lots of clues to possible plot twists -- Build the history right up to the present and the story to be told is simply what's happening "Now". Note: Much like real life, the narrative doesn't have to delve into every crevice of the world's history to be told -- You can omit exploring large swaths of the back story; Maybe save 'em for a sequel/prequel.
The great thing about this is that back-story is cheap, and we're not as invested in it; Most lore isn't set in stone so we can change bits to make the prime narrative work, or more deeply explore a new interesting game mechanic. Also, you can stop well before having a strong narrative and make a fairly open ended game instead, where the characters can explore the world and get caught up it its lore to create their own story from all the sub-stories and events waiting to be triggered.
Text based games have such a lower resource crafting cost than today's games with multi-million dollar graphics and voice-overs, that in my BBS's text adventure I was free to detail anything I wanted -- even the inside of a dead knight's eye socket -- and not care if anyone ever, "> Look Skull". I like today's games, but it seems like the artists and writers try to trot everything out in front of you during the course of play, as if to say, "Hey! Look at what I made!", and this can affect narrative too. IMO, if you love your game you've got to set it free and let the players discover some bits of joy on their own terms... Sadly, it's money not love that primarily drives the games industry (unlike some art-forms, like painting, or some indie games). If something doesn't directly affect the narrative then it typically gets cut from the budget -- there goes a bit of the world and it becomes a bit less engaging and "real".
Stories feel shallow when they don't have a deep back-story full of lore that's driving the plot -- Think about that. Our history is what's driving our own world; It's a large part of what makes us who we (characters) are and what gives the world its solidity and meaning. Wipe out all history and there'll be a bunch of people (esp. soldiers) standing around wondering why they're where they are and what they're supposed to do (much like in some games).
For instance: It's the World's History that drives the story and gives it meaning: Without the past conflict between the houses of Montague & Capulet, Romeo and Juliet makes no sense! Any world their story is told in must have a conflict between two segregated groups each with loyal members -- You can arrive at that story if you first craft a world torn by conflict, but you can't start with that story and craft a peaceful world full of tolerant people.
Not that I'm saying EC is wrong, it's just that there are MANY MANY MANY ways to arrive at the narrative for your story, and the "Let's Convey A Feeling, then focus on Mechanics" approach is a good one, but it's only ONE approach. To not touch on any other approaches in an episode that proclaims to describe "How to Start Your Game Narrative" is a bit silly. I'd have cut that 1st part about NOT starting a narrative down to two sentences, and explored all the other options if it were me... IMO, what James sees tearing teams up could also simply be the results of inflexible overly specific narratives, not necessarily the product of having a good story to tell up front.
You don't have to abstain from story writing: If your story is flexible enough to be like Romeo and Juliet then don't worry about adapting it and conveying the conflicts and emotions in whatever game world with whatever mechanics you end up having. There's more than one way to arrive at a narrative. If you're stuck on narrative, then I suggest focusing instead on world crafting / lore building and you'll naturally create many starting points for a story. E.g.: James implies the mechanics should be selected to convey the emotion, but it's just as good to craft a world and derive mechanics from it, or select cool mechanics and craft a narrative / world around it (see also: Portal).
I think the important thing is to have everything flexible at the outset, including narrative, and iteratively refine the world and characters, mechanics, story, etc as you go along. If any thing is set in stone from the outset that will likely be your stumbling block for the entire project.
TL;DR: How do you start a Narrative? If you don't have a good Flexible Story yet then start World Crafting and/or building the Mechanics and soon you will.
Edit: You might also enjoy this GDC talk about making Portal2 told from the writer's perspective. Note: Portal2 initially didn't have Chell, Glados, or even Portals...
penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/how-to-start-your-game-narrative
vortexcortex / January 23
Well, if your story is like "Romeo and Juliet" and it can be retold in any setting even with different characters, then it's not really boxing yourself in much at all now is it? That story only requires loyalties and conflicting groups to be told. I'm not saying that's the best way to start out, but a good story can indeed be created first then applied in different settings and different game worlds with different mechanics -- The world and mechanics and narrative need not be so tightly coupled as for one to need to be "first". The world can indeed restrict what stories can be told. For instance, Romeo and Juliet doesn't really work well in a wold where main characters are an asexual race of sentient machines...
In my opinion, EC missed the mark a bit. They have an episode titled "How To Start Your Game Narrative" and about half of it isn't even about good narrative processes, ~50% of the episode is about NOT starting a narrative. Thus a more apt title should be "When To Start Your Game Narrative" -- Note that When and How are two VASTLY different things...
What I like to do to start my narrative is world crafting. I like to come up with worlds that maybe haven't been explored (deeply) yet, and flesh them out into a compelling place to tell a story. Once the art style and setting are taking root, I ask "what important kinds of stories does this world lend itself to telling?" I don't hesitate to sketch out some stories in the world and if they don't work as a main narrative, they can always become lore. In creating the Lore of the world I end up naturally coming up with all sorts of political intrigue and possible story elements that can tie into a bigger more overarching story with lots of clues to possible plot twists -- Build the history right up to the present and the story to be told is simply what's happening "Now". Note: Much like real life, the narrative doesn't have to delve into every crevice of the world's history to be told -- You can omit exploring large swaths of the back story; Maybe save 'em for a sequel/prequel.
The great thing about this is that back-story is cheap, and we're not as invested in it; Most lore isn't set in stone so we can change bits to make the prime narrative work, or more deeply explore a new interesting game mechanic. Also, you can stop well before having a strong narrative and make a fairly open ended game instead, where the characters can explore the world and get caught up it its lore to create their own story from all the sub-stories and events waiting to be triggered.
Text based games have such a lower resource crafting cost than today's games with multi-million dollar graphics and voice-overs, that in my BBS's text adventure I was free to detail anything I wanted -- even the inside of a dead knight's eye socket -- and not care if anyone ever, "> Look Skull". I like today's games, but it seems like the artists and writers try to trot everything out in front of you during the course of play, as if to say, "Hey! Look at what I made!", and this can affect narrative too. IMO, if you love your game you've got to set it free and let the players discover some bits of joy on their own terms... Sadly, it's money not love that primarily drives the games industry (unlike some art-forms, like painting, or some indie games). If something doesn't directly affect the narrative then it typically gets cut from the budget -- there goes a bit of the world and it becomes a bit less engaging and "real".
Stories feel shallow when they don't have a deep back-story full of lore that's driving the plot -- Think about that. Our history is what's driving our own world; It's a large part of what makes us who we (characters) are and what gives the world its solidity and meaning. Wipe out all history and there'll be a bunch of people (esp. soldiers) standing around wondering why they're where they are and what they're supposed to do (much like in some games).
For instance: It's the World's History that drives the story and gives it meaning: Without the past conflict between the houses of Montague & Capulet, Romeo and Juliet makes no sense! Any world their story is told in must have a conflict between two segregated groups each with loyal members -- You can arrive at that story if you first craft a world torn by conflict, but you can't start with that story and craft a peaceful world full of tolerant people.
Not that I'm saying EC is wrong, it's just that there are MANY MANY MANY ways to arrive at the narrative for your story, and the "Let's Convey A Feeling, then focus on Mechanics" approach is a good one, but it's only ONE approach. To not touch on any other approaches in an episode that proclaims to describe "How to Start Your Game Narrative" is a bit silly. I'd have cut that 1st part about NOT starting a narrative down to two sentences, and explored all the other options if it were me... IMO, what James sees tearing teams up could also simply be the results of inflexible overly specific narratives, not necessarily the product of having a good story to tell up front.
You don't have to abstain from story writing: If your story is flexible enough to be like Romeo and Juliet then don't worry about adapting it and conveying the conflicts and emotions in whatever game world with whatever mechanics you end up having. There's more than one way to arrive at a narrative. If you're stuck on narrative, then I suggest focusing instead on world crafting / lore building and you'll naturally create many starting points for a story. E.g.: James implies the mechanics should be selected to convey the emotion, but it's just as good to craft a world and derive mechanics from it, or select cool mechanics and craft a narrative / world around it (see also: Portal).
I think the important thing is to have everything flexible at the outset, including narrative, and iteratively refine the world and characters, mechanics, story, etc as you go along. If any thing is set in stone from the outset that will likely be your stumbling block for the entire project.
TL;DR: How do you start a Narrative? If you don't have a good Flexible Story yet then start World Crafting and/or building the Mechanics and soon you will.
Edit: You might also enjoy this GDC talk about making Portal2 told from the writer's perspective. Note: Portal2 initially didn't have Chell, Glados, or even Portals...
